Is there really no affordable + user friendly Neurofeedback hardware/software out there?

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Another update from my side: I asked Neuroguide if they would be willing to develop a customer-version of Neuroguide for use with freecap, but they never answered. Then I asked the company, which developed the freecap (link above) if they plan to work together with a software-developer to bring the freecap to consumer-level – they never answered. Maybe I will call them by phone someday …

Then I contacted another doc in Munich, which offers NF via hometraining. This could be interesting for you @Jay: He uses Myndlift which itself utilises Muses headband to connect a single electrode to it with which the training is done. I’ll try it out and post another update.

When I asked him why there was no company offering hometraining with a fullhead-set like freecap he told me from his opinion in gneral (so not only regarding hometraining) the approach “the more data the better” is not always the best. In his opinion the more electrodes you use in conjunction with Loreta the bigger the risk that you get a crapy signal. Because Loreta uses the signals from all electrodes to generate a 3D-model of the brain for training – so if one electrode transfers bad signal quality the general result was crap. So he’s a fan of using less electrodes – which transfer signals that are good – to train only specific brain areas. And he also told me that this opinion is often discussed with colleagues from university – so no holy grail in sight yet, I guess.



Thanks for the update @Michael.

I can see the logic behind that argument but saying if we have more data points were more likely to have bad data points is unconvincing to me. The Versus has a built in feature that lets you know if any of the electrodes are not producing a sufficiently good signal (which doesn’t mean the data is perfect, i know). I’m sure that isn’t foolproof but we have to do a better job at creating good electrodes.

The problem with even the muse is simply too little data and too little of the right data. When I spoke to Justin Brewer (who is conducting some of the most extensive neurofeedback experiments in a lab, both using 128 channel EEG as well as fMRI) he said that just a few channels on the forehead simply don’t give you all that much to work with.

I don’t know if the Versus was assessed by any outside group but as far as I can tell it is an example of a more extensive EEG headset (which i can easily see an even more extensive version), with a user friendly interface, but that is too expensive and simply don’t care about the type of neurofeedback I’m looking for (they only gear their protocols for athletes for some crazy reason).

I’d go so far as to say that if OpenBCI folks cared for making consumer products and not just products for hackers, they might just be in the best position to make such a device. But i don’t think they’re interested, right @biomurph? (bummer, but if it’s not their thing, that’s ok)

I could simply not understand the complexities, but I don’t see why a device somewhere between a Brewer level device and a Muse isn’t possible. And if versus is any indication, it definitely is. I’m still optimistic but until I can fund such an effort, I’ll have to keep waiting for someone else to do so.

Thanks for keeping the efforts going! :slight_smile:


Then again, maybe all I need to do is convince Leslie that Versus needs to add other protocols and ditch the subscription models and they’ll suddenly get a vastly bigger market size. Not that I haven’t tried…


Michael, Jay, hi.

re: the saline ‘freecap’:

$840 for a single cap looks completely daunting. In part this might be because they are using the sintered electrodes. But still, appears to be a price gouge. What they seem to have done is just fit sponges into the Hungarian cap system:

Here’s my page summarizing some of the other saline based headsets:

And how you can build your own with velcro:

re: more vs less electrodes for neurofeedback.

Versus only uses 5 I believe. MANY neurofeedback protocols just use 2 or 4 channels. Assessment is another story, with 19 channels being the norm. Yes for accurate surface assessment or Loreta work you need to constantly monitor the impedance of all of your electrodes to ensure good signal quality. The apps do this for you with alerts if an electrode goes wonky.

Many more neurofeedback sessions are done using just a few channels, vs. the much more expensive Loreta style.

re: Neuroguide custom. Not sure why you need this. Neuroguide is already setup for 19 channel cap, so it should work just fine.

re: OpenBCI neurofeedback. We’ve been coaxing Larry Janow, the Bioexplorer developer to release his Cyton driver for a couple months. He has it working in house. Once this is available then Pete Van Deusen’s Brain-Trainer assessment and protocol system will be available. Pete’s protocols are mostly 2 and 4 channel. No Loreta. And has gotten excellent results for decades.

William Croft


I forgot to mention the FRI dry sensor velcro headbands. The connection is somewhat more pressure sensitive than with using saline / gel / or paste – but is essentially a low cost way of using a few dry sensors in an adjustable system. These are the same dry sensors used by OpenBCI.

FRI makes a new longer pin (5 mm) comb sensor as well, more comfortable and less pointy than the ‘spikey’ feeling original combs,